ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

Animal welfare groups promote meat trade:

http://www.dailyveg.org/dailyveg/index. ... meat-trade

DailyVegEditor wrote:Animal welfare groups promote meat trade:

http://www.dailyveg.org/dailyveg/index. ... meat-trade

I am somewhat confused.

You post an article critical of welfare groups that campaign for measures that, in effect, promote animal exploitation and the consumption of animals, and that are supported by industry.

But your site appears to very actively promote PETA, which praises Whole Foods for its "humane" standards, praises McDonald's for "leading the way" in fast-food animal welfare reform, and gives awards to slaughterhouse designer Temple Grandin.

I agree with you that those campaigning for the "chilled carcass" position are off the mark. However, I do not see any distinction between what you appear to criticize and what you appear to support.

Am I missing something?

GLF

Thanks for your post. I'm well aware of your attitude towards PETA, so I'll save us all some time.

I'm willing to give PETA the benefit of the doubt and assume they are trying to work towards their stated position:

* Animals Are Not Ours to Eat
* Animals Are Not Ours to Wear
* Animals Are Not Ours to Experiment On
* Animals Are Not Ours to Use for Entertainment
* Animals Are Not Ours to Abuse in Any Way

I know they are not perfect (far from perfect in the opinions of some). I know that true abolitionism dictates that we come only from a position that the use of any animal for anything is immoral.

I've never seen a PETA demo display a "promote the slaughter trade" sign - if you have please send me a photo and I'll take down my promotional material and turn in my membership. I also know that for every comment you've made about PETA being a welfare group, many people have written about how PETA's real aims are to close pet shops, ban zoos, destroy hunting, turn everyone vegan and generally destroy the western way of life as we know it. PETA take all the flack so that we can get on promoting veganism; they are the lightning rod of the animal rights movement. Energy the anti-animal-rights movement spends on PETA is energy they are not spending on you. Conversely energy you spend on anti-PETA work is energy not spent on promoting veganism to everyone else.

Regardless, I don't have the time or inclination to argue this point, so you can declare yourself right and I'll get on with other things. If I'm not welcome to post here, I'll leave.

Fine. It was about time to swap over to promoting my favourite group anyway - the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.

animalrightsmalta wrote:

DailyVegEditor wrote:I've never seen a PETA demo display a "promote the slaughter trade" sign - if you have please send me a photo and I'll take down my promotional material and turn in my membership.

http://www.peta.org/cak/

Hah, Malta:

That was precisely the link I was going to send, expecting to be lectured that PETA never displayed a "promote the slaughter trade" sign! There is an additional PETA document promoting the economic efficiency of CAK: http://www.peta.org/CAK/CAK+economic+sy ... erhead.pdf. There are no pictures, but lots of disturbing text that discuss CAK as a real benefit for industry and the consumer. There is absolutely no difference between these materials, and the actions of the "chilled carcass" campaigners.

It will be interesting to see whether Daily Veg makes good on his promise to take down his promotional material and turn in his membership.

GLF

Gary L. Francione wrote:There is absolutely no difference between these materials, and the actions of the "chilled carcass" campaigners.

Yes, agreed, fine. Can we stop the masturbatory self-congratulation and get on with saving animals lives now?

DailyVegEditor wrote:

Gary L. Francione wrote:There is absolutely no difference between these materials, and the actions of the "chilled carcass" campaigners.

Yes, agreed, fine. Can we stop the masturbatory self-congratulation and get on with saving animals lives now?

Oh, please, not another "welfarist who gets caught in a blatant inconsistency so hurls insults and whines about 'saving animal lives' to deflect the issue" comment. How very boring.

YOU published a self-righteous condemnation of the welfarists who promoted the "chilled carcass" campaign.

I pointed out to you that those welfarists took a position that is indistinguishable from many of the campaigns promoted by PETA, which you sycophantically endorse. You replied that you had never seen PETA display anything that promoted animal slaughter. Putting aside that there are dozens of examples of PETA promoting supposedly "humane" animal exploitation (which is exactly what those advocates you criticized were doing), and working with animal exploiters, Malta provided you with an actual example complete with video.

Your response is not to deal with the inconsistency because you are just toooooo busy getting on with the business of "saving animal lives."

Your excoriation of the "chilled caracass" campaigners simultaneously with your obsequious embrace of PETA is one of the best examples I have yet seen of the lack of critical thought that results from the cult-like character of certain segments of the animal movement.

GLF

Sorry, I somehow missed this thread when checking on new posts. DailyVegEditor, I'm afraid the groups you promote are largely the very ones that abolitionists decry as ultimately damaging our goal of changing the whole paradigm of "ownership of other animals." Promoting veganism is great, but not through campaigns that displace one's attention from the simple fact of exploitation, to certain isolated instances that display the most egregious suffering only.

If you wanted to explore the reasons why such campaigning is damaging, you'd be welcome to post them as items to be analyzed with a clear abolitionist eye. However, supporting them is completely counter to the mission statement of the forum, found in the general announcements section. Notice that it states that we are seeking to keep the abolitionist message clear, consistent, and effective. Therefore you'd need to take out links to your pages from your signature line.

If you are not willing to explore this with an open mind, and with some sensitivity that an abolitionist community cannot simply accept differences that are such explosive ones, then please don't post here.

sincerely,
panthera

Gary L. Francione wrote:Putting aside that there are dozens of examples of PETA promoting supposedly "humane" animal exploitation (which is exactly what those advocates you criticized were doing), and working with animal exploiters, Malta provided you with an actual example complete with video.

Your response is not to deal with the inconsistency because you are just toooooo busy getting on with the business of "saving animal lives."

No, my immediate action was to view the video, AGREE WITH YOU, take down the blog feeds, remove the PETA myspace layout and write to PETA explaining why. What more are you expecting?

Regardless, it's clear that there's little to be achieved by my presence here. Please delete my account panthera.