ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

Faunus wrote:Suffering can give rise to empathy. It does not alway, but fortunately in my life - it did.

Faunus, you keep yourself so open to the injustices & suffering perpetuated on others; it is a real testament to your strength and resilience. I always hear from you a deep understanding of what others--so often non-human others-- endure, and an unequivocal assertion that this is wrong and must be stopped, with no room for compromise.

You've really taken the cruelties you suffered and forged a safe haven for others, and a solid place to campaign for the end of injustice. I greatly admired this.

panthera

I can definitely relate to Faunus about the parental situation. There were many years that I did not talk to my mother because of her psychological abuse when I was young. I would love to delve more, not into that topic, but into the topic of parents and the meat-eating mentality. Specifically I've always wondered if my mother was the only one to have this particular Multiple Personality Disorder opinion of the abuse of animals. If there is an animal being abused on t.v. whether it is an actor in a fake situation or a news story about an animal abuser, she yells "la la la, not listening" and reaches for the remote. If any topic is brought up that may lead to anything about an animal being hurt, she acts as though she may cry and says, "change the topic immediately!" If I have a conversation with her husband about where the meat they eat comes from, such as I did this past weekend, she actually leaves the room very upset and returns only after we've finished. WTF?? She doesn't want to hear alternatives to eating meat, will not eat at veggie restaurants, and gets angry with me if I even mention anything about my beliefs on the topic of animal abuse, and yet she seems to have a very sensitive innate feeling that the way she is living is morally wrong! I feel badly for her sometimes when I think of the inner struggle that must hold her captive and then I remember that she fought with me from the time I was seven until I was sixteen about my need to not eat meat and actually forced me to do so with some very cruel methods. If she weren't with her husband who is an avid hunter/redneck, I'm sure I could help her to heal whatever is broken inside her just by arming her with knowledge and the support to do what is right in the face of what is easy, but things are not that way, and in order to see her at all I just put those desires aside and try to love her unconditionally. My stepfather's meat-eating mentality is more standard (I imagine?) such as, We eat meat because God put it here for us, if a hunting dog doesn't do it's job take it out back and shoot it, if an animal misbehaves beat it into submission. All of this I witnessed in my eight years of living with him. He doesn't live that brutally anymore, that I know of, and if I had been more than ten years old at the time I may have tried to stand up to him but trust me a man who will punch a dog in the face will punch a child in the face too. Such a cathartic rant, but my point as I stated in the beginning is to ascertain if anyone else's genetic predecessors have a similar mentality.

Faunus wrote:Hi James!

I should make it clear that my "divorcing" my parents was surely not about their being omivorous. I cut them off when they cut me off at a very young and tender age due to their bizarre cruelty to their children (psycholigally and physically); their sick sadism extended to non-human beings. To be blunt, I grew up in a very fucked-up, dysfunctional "family". In fact, my parents were my main frame of reference to "evil" as a child. At age twelve I chose to never eat the flesh of another being again empathising with the deep suffering they callously imposed on humans and non-humans, and have not touched animal flesh 43+ years later.

I'm not trying to assert moral superiority as vegan over those who are omnivore, so here I have no problem divulging more personal data about my earlier personal life. Suffering can give rise to empathy. It does not alway, but fortunately in my life - it did.

Faunus

Hi Faunus,

I know that you haven't suggested or implied this in any way, but I just wanted to make clear that I was not judging anyone else's situation in saying that my relationship with my family is unconditional.

James

peachy_hez, your mother's basic mentality is pretty common, but it does sound like she has an extreme version of it. I find fighting with your child, trying to force him/her into doing something he/she believes is wrong, to be fairly pathological. I recall a story John Robbins tells of a pig farmer that he interviewed. This guy seemed to have no trouble subjecting his pigs to all the privations that farmed pigs suffer. For some reason, he invited John to dinner, then during dinner had some emotional defensive outburst, accusing John of I don't remember what, but his kids ran out of the room & I think the wife did too.

The farmer didn't really like many of the things he had to do, but felt that in order to feed his family, he had to use all the standard practices that are so cruel. Apparently, he rather liked pigs. Then he actually remembers that as a young boy he had a very beloved pet pig, who was basically his best friend. But his father forced him to slaughter this beloved pig, saying that if he didn't, then the boy was no longer his son.

After re-experiencing that trauma, this farmer was able to get back in touch with his natural sympathy for pigs and other animals. He kept his pigs, but turned his farm into a place to teach kids about the animals that we call "farm animals." Apparently doing well, and certainly much happier.

I always think back to this story when I hear about someone just being blindingly resistant to truth and emotion. It goes for all sorts of childhood traumas, and maybe for animal cruelty it is also a perpetuation of abuse.

Hello Panthera, Peachy-hez, James and everyone!

Please forgive my "brief" response here for now, but I will get back with you. I just wanted you to know that I valued all of your feedback! Real people living in a real world who are vegan (and possibly ARAs) can be of great support to each other - and I acknowledge that each of us has thoughts, feelings, strengths, weakenss, a personal history, etc. All that we do for non-human animals effectively or ineffectively will be conditioned by these things. I think it's valuable that gut-level sharing take place in an atmosphere that is honest, personable, and supportive. I also value when anyone makes themselves more dynamic on these threads by not just spouting philosophy and positions. There are plenty of web sites exclusively for that. It keeps me wondering, "who is this person"?

James, I understand what you just shared. For me there is no "absolute right or wrong" regarding vegans' willingness or unwillingness, ability or inability to have relationships with omnivores - whether they are parents, friends, or strangers. If you are able to have an unconditional relationship with your parents - I am pleased to no end because this was not possible in my life's experience. Personally, I am not conviced that "love" or "relationships" (depending on how you define them) can be unconditional - but that is not a point I wish to argue here. I just want you to know that it brings a smile to my face that your parents mean that much to you. My situation left no space for compromise.

Panthera, you are such a gem. Yeah, in my life's experience growing up in the Twilight Zone of child abuse - I had those 'points of enlightenment' acknowledging that I could either let it mould me into being angry, bitter, retaliating, etc. (and make a lifesytle out of it) - OR choosing to not live at the effect of my past. I met the right people at the right time, but not everyone does, unfortunately. As a gay man, my transformation from such a history really empowered my volunteer work with abused, homeless, gay teens some years back. I could let these kids know I truely understood. Noteworthy was the fact that many of them wanted to know why I was vegetarian (at that time), and I was successful in many instances at getting them to connect the dots. Long story on that one, so I will never undervalue the suffering factor in the plight of non-human animals.

Peachy-hez, I could talk for hours with you! I almost don't know where to begin, and unfortunately time is short tonight.
I'll get back with you, luv!

Faunus

I used to clean floors for a chain of grocery stores here in MI. Everytime I went through meat section, I had to hold my breath when I went by the doors leading to the meat prep room. The smell lingered on everybody that worked in there, and the floors in that section were by and far the greasiest and most soiled part of the store.