ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

The guy responsible for the anthrax letters after 9/11 was on an animal care committee before he killed himself:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/01/ant ... index.html

We constantly hear how a lot of murderers used to abuse animals when they were children. I'm always interested in these stories of human murderers who were involved in *legal* animal torture/killing. There are so many hunters who are convicted of violent crimes against humans. And remember that Charles Stuart guy in Boston who murdered his wife? He worked for a fur store. And he also killed himself when he realized he was going to be caught.

Doris

I realized after I sent this that I should have specified, "human murderers who were involved in *legal* animal torture/killing ***more than the average person***."

Doris

I have usually wondered what else you can expect from a human that kills someone that hasn’t done any wrong to her/him, when that same human gets confronted with someone that has done wrong to her/him.
If I kill cows for economic benefit or taste pleasure with all my mental faculties in place, how difficult is it going to be for me to kill someone that stole $1 million dollars from me, while losing my mind because of it?
Not so difficult, I think.

Many people that “make a living” out of killing other animals say that they have to shut any sense of empathy and act as if they were dealing with “something” rather than “someone”. That ability might be used anywhere else, with anyone else.

I tend to disagree with generalizations about people who participate in the exploitation of nonhumans labeling them "cruel," or necessarily consciously restraining their sense of empathy, etc. We have to understand that individuals within our society hold strongly to certain premises. One, I believe, is "non-harm"; this unease with unnecessary suffering is primary, I believe. However, we also hold other premises (perhaps secondary): their exists an insuperable line between humans and nonhumans. Because of this, in the absence of reflection and logic aiming at unfolding the primary premises against suffering thereby including all suffering, human or nonhuman, this distinction between humans and nonhumans is held very strongly. Therefore, suffering harm on a nonhuman for commonly accepted utilitarian ends does not take an act of cruelty nor does it consists of restraining our empathy because there is a strongly held presumption against considering the experiences of nonhumans.

This isn't a rule perhaps, but I think it ought to inform the way we think about nonhuman exploiters and the things they do.


http://www.not-quiteright.net/tvg/

thatvegangirl wrote:I tend to disagree with generalizations about people who participate in the exploitation of nonhumans labeling them "cruel," or necessarily consciously restraining their sense of empathy, etc.

Whether or not they are consciously restraining it , though, their sense of empathy is eroded. As you point out, there are strong presumptions that divide killing humans and killing non-humans, and these strongly inform people's actions. But don't you think there must be a subconscious eroding effect on their ability to empathize?

There also must be at least one moment during which they do consciously decide to block their sense of empathy. True, they may have compelling reasons, such as the belief that it is a sacrifice made to save innocent human lives. But they still know what they are doing, and I think it eats away at the soul. After all, isn't this why police officers and soldiers have such difficulty dealing with the fact that they killed someone, even when it's completely sanctioned by, and even demanded by, society? Sure we're talking about humans in this case, but for certain especially violent criminals who are endangering innocent lives, there is a presumption that they should be shot. But the officer/soldier still feels the damage to that innate sense of empathy.

I suspect you're pointing out that it's not fair to blame some of the folks on Animal Care Committees. I agree that it's not right to demonize them. But I do believe there's a really sobering effect of consciously killing any sentient beings. As Doris points out, non-vegans actually do this as well, but this is a closer connection to the killing itself.