ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

I know this is off topic, but please be patient a second.

Are we talk about 'laws' Liberacion-Igualdad ?
If so, sorry I did not explain well.
By the law, of couse my cats are my property.
I deny non-human animals are property.
Laws do not lead to eradicate the status of animal salvery.
Eradicating status of of animal slavery starts from us, individual level.

I rescue non-human animals means I eradicate their satus of slavery.
I do not endose to say " Animals are Property" I always say " By the Law,
Animals are Property"
That is my whole point.

Barna Mink: I see your point now. I guess it all comes down to what each individual sees as the most effective usage of resources, or "means", in their own specific reality and time. We must choose. Either choice is going to lead, hopefully, to saving someone´s life, but at the same time, to not being able to do so with some other lives - the "zero sum" state of affairs written earlier. That´s our reality. Perhaps there´s no way to state unequivocally which one´s the best

Hummingbird: Understood and agreed
No further comments on that.

James: I think you raise a very good point. That´s the reason why I believe that, for example, abolitionist sanctuaries, are not only worth it, but also further the cause. There is the statement (intrinsic and, hopefully, extrinsic as well) that those animals rescued are individuals with inherent value. That is a powerful message to get across in a society like ours.
The dog example was interesting too. Was that what you were refering to, Panthera?

Liberacion (& James), no, in fact I specified "speciesism" (heh!) not "property status." Dog & cat rescues always make me doubly sad because of the dogs & cats who need them but do not find sanctuary, and because of all the other species who need them just as much but never get a second glance. I think that non-vegan dog/cat rescue operations are dangerous b/c people who volunteer or donate to them feel good about their "compassion for animals." I think we all probably know people who say, "yes, I feel guilty about eating meat, but I donate to this shelter, so I feel better."

AutomaticMan, I am heartened that so many chickens were re-homed! And your point about different people doing different forms of outreach (sanctuary vs. pamphlets) is a good one. As long as there is an abolitionist message, as I think Veganomante pointed out, it can be quite effective. And it sounds like you've got that sort of set-up. Can you tell us, are most of the others involved with BAA also taking this view? Actually, I think you mentioned that some were offering "ethical" egg consumption. (sigh)

I have to admit that much of my questioning comes from these odd "feelings" I get; when I thought of this issue, I "heard" in my head the new welfare cry of "aren't you betraying the animals who are suffering now, for the sake of some non-existent animals!?" (by not rescuing as many as possible) and then "we'll all chip away at it in our own ways; every little bit helps, and helping animals in any way helps people to see animals as worthy of consideration." (regarding different kinds of rescue operations). Which makes me suspicious, but then I can't go around pointing out "that looks like new welfare!!" at everything I see. That just shows my own lack of understanding, and insecurity. I'm very happy to have everyone's thoughts on this.

panthera wrote:I have to admit that much of my questioning comes from these odd "feelings" I get; when I thought of this issue, I "heard" in my head the new welfare cry of "aren't you betraying the animals who are suffering now, for the sake of some non-existent animals!?"

"We cannot discuss here the mischief that compassion has introduced into modern revolutions by attempts to improve the lot of the unfortunate rather than to establish justice for all." Hannah Arendt, Men in Dark Times.

That sounds so like Ayn Rand, that I might have misunderstood if din't see that in context.

panthera wrote:AutomaticMan, I am heartened that so many chickens were re-homed! And your point about different people doing different forms of outreach (sanctuary vs. pamphlets) is a good one. As long as there is an abolitionist message, as I think Veganomante pointed out, it can be quite effective. And it sounds like you've got that sort of set-up. Can you tell us, are most of the others involved with BAA also taking this view? Actually, I think you mentioned that some were offering "ethical" egg consumption. (sigh)

Yeah, actually, last year there was more homes than hens. But still, thousands got slaughtered. Because apparently some sanctuary said they could take a couple thousand, but never eventually did and for some reason kept ignoring messages and not returning calls from BAA. It's even more heart-wrenching when you think that there was enough homes. I don't know much else about it, except apparently BAA were going to name and shame them.

I don't really know BAA that well, given that their hundreds of miles away from me. I just know some people have been like 'home some hens, get cruelty-free eggs every morning' which is obviously messed up. I don't think that's the message BAA are officially sending out, since I do believe they do vegan activism. But I don't really know for sure.


I was actually thinking about this today, as hopefully I'll be caring for some more of these refugees in about a week.