ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

Hello from VivaVegie Society,
sponsoring organization of

THE FIRST VEGGIE PRIDE PARADE IN AMERICA
http://www.veggieprideparade.org/
May 18, 2008
Greenwich Village, NYC
Rally: Washington Sq. Park

What's that?
Read our press release:
* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/pr.htm

Here's how you can play a part:

March in the parade:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/contests.htm
* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/veggies/


Volunteer:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/volunteers.htm


Buy a space for your name or company name in our program guide
(sure to be a collector's item some day):

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/program.htm


Donate:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/donations.htm


Post a poster in your neighborhood:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/pr.htm


Be a sponsor:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/sponsors.htm




FAQs:

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/faqs.htm




Stay in touch:

Our blog:

* http://www.vivavegie.org/prideblog/index.html


RSS feed for our blog:

* http://www.vivavegie.org/prideblog/atom.xml


Bulletin board to post a comment or a question (8 forums):

* http://www.veggieprideparade.org/dept/bulletin.htm
* http://www.vivavegie.org/prideblog/index.html (click for blog about bulletin board)


Google calendar, committee events prior to parade date:

* http://tinyurl.com/2f72xl



Veggie Pride Parade
office:
One Union Sq. W., #512
New York, NY 10003
212-242-0011

Mailing address:
VivaVegie Society
P.O. Box 294
Prince St. Sta.
New York, NY 10012

If their goal as stated on the website, is showing what's wrong with the meat, dairy, and egg industries, why are they also promoting vegetarianism?

I know of course you're very much into vegan advocacy, as referenced in your signature, but I'm afraid this notice is not appropriate for this forum.

Yeah, this is pretty thorny. I'm not too happy that it is so vague. Reading through the website, eggs and dairy are listed alongside meat as being problematic, but the discussion about why is practically nonexistent, and veganism is not held as a standard in any sort of why that might perhaps turn off or otherwise offend ovo-lacto-vegetarians.

I think vegetarian establishments are being advertised as well. We're not even allowing "nearly-vegan" people to become members here, so at least for this space I don't think it's appropriate. But if folks would like to discuss the topic, please do.

This whole thing is silly. "Veggie", "Vegetarian", "Veg*n" are all nonsense properly categorized under "not vegan".

It's so far past time to establish the rejection of all non-human use (veganism) as the default baseline of anyone who claims to take animal interests seriously, that it's absurd. When it does happen, we will be powerful. I am planning to live past 100, which gives me over 75 years to make sure we get there. Hopefully it wont take quite that long.

Again, a confused message, and that is not helpful.

Moreover, why should people be "proud" of not consuming animal products?

We wouldn't have a "non-racist pride" march, would we?

I can understand why gay/lesbians and other groups who are thought to have some "defect," have "pride" marches to make clear that they do not regard themselves as "defective."

And I can also understand the concept of a march to raise consciousness about consuming animal products.

But "veggie pride"? And dressing up in vegetable costumes?

This is supposed to be some emulation of the Parisian event. Let's hope we don't have an emulation of the "Abolition of Meat" nonsense.

And as much as I love France and the French, we might want to think about taking France as any sort of standard on the non-animal-food front.

GLF

Hi Gary

Me too I'm personnally not 100% satisfied with the message transmitted by the Veggie Pride. I too think it sorta misses the point - it's the non-human animals that should be taken into account, not the right for vegetarians / vegans to be vegetarians or vegans. Me too I find it troubling the whole "pride" thing, and have done so for years now.

And as much as I love France and the French, we might want to think about taking France as any sort of standard on the non-animal-food front.

Nevertheless, I find it particularly shocking that you should make such a disdaining comment like the one above. Do you really need to resort to this sort of affirmation to rally people around your points of view? How dare you make such a broad accusation on the french activist scene? If you want to have a debate on a specific issue, that's absolutely fine with me. But making such global accusations, I really don't understand your intentions. I must say I admire your work, and feel very akin to a lot of your writings, so I'm particularly dazzled to see someone resort to such a contemptuous remark, with all due respect.

kamaleon wrote:I find it particularly shocking that you should make such a disdaining comment like the one above.

Gary is, I think, suggesting that, if the kind of activism we have seen from French activists recently is representative (e.g., the idea that we can be "vegetarians regarding foie gras"), then we MIGHT want to consider that there is little abolitionist activism going on in France. I don't see what is particularly "disdaining" about this.

kamaleon wrote:If you want to have a debate on a specific issue, that's absolutely fine with me.

Thank you for your infinite grace.

I'd rather have Gary comment on his own sayings

kamaleon wrote:Nevertheless, I find it particularly shocking that you should make such a disdaining comment like the one above. Do you really need to resort to this sort of affirmation to rally people around your points of view? How dare you make such a broad accusation on the french activist scene? If you want to have a debate on a specific issue, that's absolutely fine with me. But making such global accusations, I really don't understand your intentions. I must say I admire your work, and feel very akin to a lot of your writings, so I'm particularly dazzled to see someone resort to such a contemptuous remark, with all due respect.

I express my views. If you agree with them, fine. If you don't, that's fine too. And should you think that I am interested in your "How dare you make..." statements, you really could not be more in error.

I am somewhat familiar with the French activist scene and in my view, the abolitionist approach has not yet caught on there. The French activist scene is very, very much dominated by welfarism. The vegan movement is quite small. Indeed, I am speaking at a conference in April in Paris and there seems to be some doubt as to whether the University will be able to prepare a vegan meal for me. (I have found it much easier to get vegan food in Spain and Italy.) In this forum, we have recently been lectured on the "Veggie Pride" march by the "Abolition of Meat" crowd, who talk about "vegetarians regarding foie gras."

The organizers of the N.Y. "Veggie Pride" event claim that they are emulating the Parisian event, which is itself a masterpiece of confusion. I am not sure why anyone thinks that is a good idea.

GLF