ARCO's Abolitionists - A Vegan Forum

I´d like to know your views and ways on how to get the Vegan/abolitionist message to children (especially under 10-12 years old).

Most of them don´t have all the prejudices and discriminatory thinking that our societies “teaches” –yet- and usually, they feel a lot of empathy towards other animals so they are (should be?) one of the main focus of our efforts.
But, most of them don´t have their critical thinking developed enough, so I think we can´t talk about the philosophical/moral theories too deeply with them. I believe we need to present something as simple and clear as possible.

I haven´t had any experience on this but I believe I should start getting some -I have a recently-born niece and a 2 years old nephew so the time is coming-.

Do you know of any leaflets or videos made especially for children? What do you think about showing them shocking images of non-human animals being abused?
How do you approach children to whom you are related to (daughter, son, nephew, niece, etc.), and how do you approach children that you will probably see only once in your life?

Any thoughtful response will be highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Samuel.

Educating children is one of the best ways to change society. The problem with educating children about animal rights is the parents, and as you mentioned, the lack of ability to think critically and independently at that age (hell, even most human adults cannot think critically or independently about anything).

In the case of nieces and nephews, I think the best strategy is to “be the favorite uncle or aunt who is VEGAN”. IOW, lead by example for them as well as their parents.

In the case of children-at-large, a vast majority of ignorant parents-at-large will knock any education out of their heads as soon as the child makes a peep about it (sadly).

I think the best age (and social situation in which) to reach people is from 18-25 in universities. They are (hopefully) learning to think critically and independently, mommy and daddy can’t tell them what to eat or think anymore, they have not settled down with spouse and kids yet (usually), and they’re often game for new ideas. “Vegan” Outreach’s Adopt-A-College program would be excellent IF they actually promoted veganism as a moral baseline instead of as a difficult, ascetic option for saints, heroes, and bodhisattvas (e.g., “we don’t expect you to be ‘extreme’ and go vegan, just cut back, and you’re doing what reasonable people would do”).

An abolitionist "Adopt-A-College" program would be awesome. It's on the wish-list.

i've recently been to a primary school speaker's workshop run by animal aid in the uk...i didn't know What to expect when i turned up, i was wondering how to get a message across to 5-11 year old's without either giving them nightmares or pissing off their parents and getting the programme shut down!

they inspired me! there was a lot of positive reinforcement of animals...about how cool they are, about the great stuff they can do better than us or the ways we're just the same...they had hand puppets of animals that have a bad press (rats/pigs/chickens etc) and told stories about how the rat loves and takes care of it's young, how the pig loves to live in the woods (rather than a sty) and stories and dvd's showing animals enjoying themselves or doing amazing things...

there was no discrimination on the day about Which animals are cool...just that all of them are...there was talk about companion animals as these are often the only non humans that kids of this age have Any responsibility for (in that they can choose to be nice to the cat or not!) and that they like or would choose a lot of the same things that we like or choose...and then the connection made to say that other animals would also choose the same things (space, freedom etc.)

there was no 'rights' message as such but the whole day was really positive and at the age it was aimed at i found it a really good way to get a positive image of non human animlas across

i'm going to a workshop in may aimed at speaking in secondary schools (age 11-16) which could be more of a philosophical day and should be really interesting!!

i'm hoping to start with some school talks in a couple of months...can't wait!

mountainvegan's point about being a favourite aunt or uncle is a great one! it's hard to see what else one can do to promote a message to people who aren't making their own choices very often and i agree it's a good way to get a message to the parants too...
cheers,
ben

Yes, it's the issue of the parents. I have two nephews of the "won't eat anything that has even just little bits of veggies in them" type. I agonized about how to "proselytize" without proselytizing, for awhile. We get together for meals about once every several weeks, so my diet is obvious to them. In fact the parents told them they were lucky because if they came to my house they would eat nothing but vegetables!

It wasn't too long before the older one asked (maybe at about 6yrs?) why I didn't eat meat, to which I replied that I didn't want to kill animals. And at that time I also told him that I did NOT drink milk, either. And when he asked why, I wasn't sure how to put it, so I asked him to give me a little time to answer, but that I would definitely answer. And then later when we weren't around his parents I explained that they needed to take the calf away from the mother, and that they both were killed later. He doubted me because of a movie in school, but I did say the movie was not accurate. A year or two later, the younger one actually said that it was true (what I'd said) because of some book in school! I'll have to see exactly what the book was, because I'm really surprised it would mention it.

In the meantime, I gave them vegan brownies (that they always ate immediately) every time I went to the farmer's market, and recently gave them a vegan birthday cake. So it's been a very hands-off, answer simply when they ask approach. I haven't broached the suffering angle of it, because I'm pretty sure the parents would get upset by my trying to shock them. I guess I'm just putting in their heads that not everybody kills to eat (their dad's a hunter, and he & the younger one bond over learning where to shoot animals so they die quickest).

I just realized - they are both fascinated by my living with a cat, so I can point out that I wouldn't want anyone to eat her, and there's no difference between her and a calf.

As for children's literature/videos, there are a lot of books & such by animal welfare places. An interesting question at this point is how different abolitionist & welfarist outreach to children would be. Isn't most welfarist children's outreach based on "animals are people too" rather than "this is how to minimize suffering"? Here's an interesting story for slightly older children, about a how a "humane" family farmer converted to growing fruit trees. http://www.animalsong.org/childrens_stories/appleoak.html

Not a "quick intro" type of thing, of course.

mountainvegan wrote:In the case of nieces and nephews, I think the best strategy is to “be the favorite uncle or aunt who is VEGAN”. IOW, lead by example for them as well as their parents.

I have a 5 year-old niece. She loves me deeply, though we are separated by 2.000 kilometres (I live in the capital city and she lives in the first city of the country from north to south). My family has always regarded me as a role model for I always had good grades when I was at school, I have never drunk, smoked nor party savagely and because now I spend a lot of my time fighting for other people rights (nonhuman animals)

I've heard recently (through phone contacts with my grandmother who also lives there with my niece) that the little five year-old girl refuses to eat sausages for a long time now and she, not long ago, said to her parents (my uncle and wife) that she doesn't want to eat meat (animals) anymore. She also has said that, once an adult, she won't drink milk nor eat (impressive!) gelatine.

Now, I have never encouraged her to be vegan. I've just limited to existing. Of course, her parents won't let her be vegan at such short age and it also maybe a bad idea if they are not vegan as well.

I hope that in the future (when she's fifteen at least) she takes up on those ideas (help by me at that time, clearly).

This goes to show that our manners, life-style and the image that people have of ourselves is very important for this struggle.

See you

A big hug for both of you!! You must be overjoyed!

Hi guys, I´m sorry for taking so long to reply.

First of all, I´d like to thank you for your comments. I think you all raised some very valid points.

About children close to us (specifically family members) I believe that what´s been said already might be the best way to go. Teach them by example, answer when they ask (inadvertently leading them to ask, if possible), give them vegan food (like those brownies and cakes) highlighting the fact that are vegan, etc.

As for other children, the issue is harder, indeed. The “positive reinforcement” is a great idea, though I think that we should also talk about “veganism” with them. I think it is very important to, at least, bring the “idea” or “concept” of veganism to their minds as soon as possible – to let them know that there´s people out there that do not kill or exploit animals to eat, wear, etc. This is something that could make a difference between an abolitionist and a welfarist approach; not to be afraid of the taboo “V” word.

With the group I volunteer (the Chilean Vegan Society) were invited to participate with a stand in an environmental fair next month, aimed at children between 6 and 14 yrs old from different schools. We are going to have the opportunity to make some kind of “presentations”, so we chose to divide our public in two groups. Group A for children from 6 to 9 yrs old and group B for 10 yrs old and older.
For the latter we´re going to show a fifty-so minutes documentary that covers the main issues about “livestock production”: the environment, human health, and animals used for food. It has some graphic images, but I think it´s OK for that age.

For the former, we are doing an original music v/s image video (which I will try to attach here soon for you to see), making the link between humans and other animals, showing images of both, from “freedom” and “happiness” to “privation of liberty” and “suffering”, ending with some images of animal “products”. We will add a voice telling some kind of poem to go with the video (to make things more evident.) Maybe it is a little bit graphic too, but I think it is quite moderate.

After both we will speak a little bit about what we showed, talk about veganism, and let them ask questions. There will be some teachers, and probably some parents too, so we are planning to take material “for them” regarding some nutritional/health aspects about veganism too, to try to manage the “parents issue”.

Without a doubt, there will be some parents that will “knock any education out of their heads”, but hopefully there will be some that will not, and who knows, maybe even some that will support it.

What do you think?

Ben: Did you go to the other workshop for older children?

Kind regards,

Samuel.

Samuel,

I didn't make it to that workshop...I'm disappointed but for a couple of reasons I couldn't be there...I may have a chance to attend at another time but I'm not sure just yet...

I agree with what you said about mentioning veganism to children (and not being afraid of the 'V' word) although the workshop I attended before was run by Animal Aid and they are very cautious about the content due to previous complaints by parents and the danger of their entire schools programme being shut down because of complaints...it's crazy but the content Has to be watered down just to get Some content into schools - I don't like this but, as the content doesn't seem speciesist and doesn't mention welfarism I think they're doing the best job they are allowed to do...

I'm really interested to see how your two presentations go next month! It's exciting to be involved in something so important and I wish you all the best...the idea of making the link between human and non human animals is important and a great connection to make at that age!
Ben

I wonder, in general, about running stuff past an authority first, whether it's parents or teachers or whoever is putting on an event. I feel like, if given the opportunity to say something, they will always say, "oh that's too graphic." But it does seem like the most respectful thing to do. Maybe it has to do with my experience growing up, where if you ask, you will be denied, but if you just do it, you might get by!

I get the feeling you are a good judge of what is too graphic and what is not, though, Samuel.

I hope it goes really well; I'm sure it will!